The AO Platform, My Analysis

DR928;10695 wrote: Brad,

In all due respect, can you explain to us why you perceive McLovin's Post pointing out "Data Points" with no personal attacks, as "Rudeness".. and Stan's very negative attacks on Andrew as "not rudeness".

IMHO, you post is exactly what is wrong with the OC. It has become some sort of "exclusive insiders club" with lots of back room secret deals and policy dictatorships.

Just as IMHO Stan being in position of complete control of the voting process, accounting of votes, this website, and this forum right down to the hosting company and servers, should remain neutral in this election cycle and not show favoritism, YOU as the "Moderator" of this Forum should also do the same...if a Moderator cannot stay neutral and not pick sides...he should NOT be the Moderator. Anything less in both cases IS an abuse of power.

Also buy your own new "Rule" of a 50-100 post count to "gain credibility", I guess our VP Marc White at 11 posts, our Trustee and Charter Member Wally Plumley at 20 Posts, our other Trustee and Multi-time OCIC Organizer Roger Tyson at 9 posts, our Secretary Greg Nichols at 4 Posts, our Treasury Gary Knox at 5 Posts, and me one of the Fouders at now 1 Post...should be on your version of "probation" here on the 928OC Forums....yeah, right, best of luck with that!

Maybe someone in Power here needs to give YOU a Warning.

Sincerely,

I have *only* stated facts with regard to Andrew, and all were in response to his "hope and change" theme of which no details have yet to be provided.

Everything about the 928 OC is completely transparent, except perhaps deals made at events which I am not privy to. You were on the 928 OC board, every vote is posted for members to see. In this case you have a non-member register anew to start making negative comments and campaigning for Andrew. This is what is commonly referred to as a troll, and is clearly against the policies of this forum.

Also, as when you were on the 928 OC board, you *know* if I didn't do almost everything nothing would be done. The 928 OC would still be what it was 9 years ago, when I took on the leadership, a club in name only with money in the bank.

I *am* passionate about what I have build here, and Brad is one of those who have stepped up to assist members. If you hadn't just started visiting here, you would know that. I can agree that Brad's suggested method of monitoring by post count is a quite reasonable one.

KilnRed;10691 wrote: Agreed. I guess a little election drama was all that was needed to attract the RL crowd to participate in the OC forums.

These were originally member only forums, that we had opened up to encourage prospective members to join. Due to this issue, I have returned the temporarily opened forums to 928 OC members only.

I would state to members, any critical input is *welcomed* as these are your forums. Please refrain from personal attacks, and *please* offer suggestions on how *YOU* can help to correct what you find amiss.

Thank you.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10698 wrote: I have *only* stated facts with regard to Andrew, and all were in response to his "hope and change" theme of which no details have yet to be provided.

Everything about the 928 OC is completely transparent, except perhaps deals made at events which I am not privy to. You were on the 928 OC board, every vote is posted for members to see. In this case you have a non-member register anew to start making negative comments and campaigning for Andrew. This is what is commonly referred to as a troll, and is clearly against the policies of this forum.

Stan,

A troll is only a troll if what he states is not factual...please show where any of McLovin's facts are not 100% true...without the "nobody will help me do anything defense".

Here we have a non-member pointing out obvious issues he has with the OC and some of the many obvious shortfalls....a smart leader would look at this and take it as feedback to be used to make things better....NOT, get all defensive (as usual) and sick the dogs on him.

I know Andrew would do better than this, I sure hope James will, since it seems obvious the powers in charge have already elected him.

If you really want to know what could possibly be causing the lack of volunteers....try looking in the mirror (or at most of your negative and/or defensive spirited posts)...from my perspective (for what that is worth) the answers are there.

Also as I have said before, my perspective is not personal towards you, I know what it is like to try and run things at the OC without enough (or any) volunteers...I also know what it can do to a person over an extended period of time, much less 9 years...I see you as a victim of that and it has changed you from the "person" I know you to really be, to someone who is very negative and defensive at any mention of feedback or proposing changes around here.

BTW, since you are so dead set against Andrew and repeatedly say part of the issue is he has not helped you or the OC or has not served as an official, trustee, etc...why not change the Bylaws to state that Officer Candidates have to have served at the OC in some official capacity in order to be eligible for an OC Officer Position, especially President....sure would save a lot of grief, BS, and negativity within and outside the OC.

Pretty simple change...and you obviously have the power to do it....as you have stated, only you can bring something to a vote.

BTW, as I have shown you with recent help fixing your GT, I am still your 928 Pal... when the state of the 928OC is not part of the topic/subject...and again I blame the extended term of service, not you personally.

Sincerely,

Mclovin;10693 wrote: Oh I see how it works here. If someone brings up facts, they are ignored and the poster is threatened. Why don't you address the issues I brought up? Oh, I see, you are one of those "more of the same" people. Please explain why it is OK that this website hasn't been updated properly in many years. The 928 OC isn't a club where everyone lives in the same town and can get together for a meeting once a month. It's a relatively small number of people spread across the globe. These people require some sort of interaction on the WWW in order for the club to survive and grow. There has been one President for 9 years. This President hosted the OC website on their own server and is a web guy in his daily life. He keeps preaching that things are fine and dandy and that he's chosen his predecessor ( James Morrison ) in order to carry on the practices of his Presidency. I find that problematic. Please explain to me how I'm way off base.

You were not "threatened", you were warned appropriately by a moderator.
You bringing up what you consider lacking, if a member, would be met, with the same response I provided to you. What are *YOU* willing to do to improve what you find an issue with?

You are way off base, because except for 2 years ago, I have run *uncontested*. Most of those sitting on the sideline are not willing to listen to tirades from people who have offered nothing but criticism.

Yes, I have put in a *huge* effort, and with nobody willing to step up, I found a person who was willing to do so. Have you *ever* been the member of any club? That is the standard. The president identifies and mentors the next president. Certainly the members can override the choice, but usually it is members who are actually involved in the club, not people who have chosen to be uninvolved even when offered to develop their own programs.

Your desire to interlace fact with fiction is troubling. I have never said things are fine and dandy. I have said we have made great progress from nothing 9 years ago, to a new forum just 3 years ago with 40% growth in members in the past 2 years. There is still much to be done, and your points about content not being up to date is quite on target. Now *WHO* is going to help change that?

What have *you* offered to the 928 OC in the past 9 years?
What has Andrew offered to the 928 OC in the past 9 years?
James has performed the membership chair function for 2 years, and that is more work than most people will provide in a lifetime to the 928 OC.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10700 wrote: I have returned the temporarily opened forums to 928 OC members only.

OMG STAN!! Please reconsider this, OR at least put this to an Emergency Trustee Vote.. this is a perfect example at what a lot of non-members perceive as one of the negatives about the 928OC.

This is also exactly what I am taking about as an abuse of power, this should NOT be your sole choice to do this without consulting others.

The 928OC was intended to have, and as well as I can remember, always had a "non-member" email list or forum discussion area....to have it and then take it away shows we are HIDING something, or can't deal with any feedback from non-members.

It is sad to watch the 928OC IMPLODE like this before my eyes!!

PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS!!!

DR928;10701 wrote: Stan,

A troll is only a troll if what he states is not factual...please show where any of McLovin's facts are not 100% true...without the "nobody will help me do anything defense".

I disagree on your definition of what a troll is. His posts bring nothing positive to the discussion. *I* am not running for election, so what has happened under my leadership is *not* the issue. What either candidate will do to address the issues he raises would be a valid question, had it been posed in a diplomatic manner. He did not, his questions were posed with venom, and that is not the environment that will exist while I am still in the leadership role.

DR928;10701 wrote: Here we have a non-member pointing out obvious issues he has with the OC and some of the many obvious shortfalls....a smart leader would look at this and take it as feedback to be used to make things better....NOT, get all defensive (as usual) and sick the dogs on him.

I know Andrew would do better than this, I sure hope James will, since it seems obvious the powers in charge have already elected him.

Dave, he went looking for issues, and you know if I start looking for issues, I will find them anywhere. His identifying them added no value, as while you may not want to hear it, the problem is a lack of volunteers. It is that simple

DR928;10701 wrote: If you really want to know what could possibly be causing the lack of volunteers....try looking in the mirror (or at most of your negative and/or defensive spirited posts)...from my perspective (for what that is worth) the answers are there.

Yes, I am defensive about the 928 OC. Because it is *something* and so much more than it once was. You are correct when anyone attacks the 928 OC, particularly with false statements, I will defend. Particularly if they have been sitting on the sidelines doing nothing. I do lots of volunteer work, not just in the 928 OC, and I am very quick to accept input from those on the sidelines with a response "how will you help to make that happen". As they say it separates the wheat from the chaff very quickly.

DR928;10701 wrote: Also as I have said before, my perspective is not personal towards you, I know what it is like to try and run things at the OC without enough (or any) volunteers...I also know what it can do to a person over an extended period of time, much less 9 years...I see you as a victim of that and it has changed you from the "person" I know you to really be, to someone who is very negative and defensive at any mention of feedback or proposing changes around here.

I am not negative at all about someone proposing changes *with* a plan of action. I have yet to see anything like that with Andrew. Are you really so comfortable with Roger taking on the administration of the 928 OC, that is the only option I have heard from Andrew's team.

This is no different than last time Andrew ran, except that then he and others assured the members they would be there to help bring their changes in after the election, win or lose. But when they lost, they were gone, so there was no benefit to their inaccurate claims and no positive force from them.

DR928;10701 wrote: BTW, since you are so dead set against Andrew and repeatedly say part of the issue is he has not helped you or the OC or has not served as an official, trustee, etc...why not change the Bylaws to state that Officer Candidates have to have served at the OC in some official capacity in order to be eligible for an OC Officer Position, especially President....sure would save a lot of grief, BS, and negativity within and outside the OC.

Pretty simple change...and you obviously have the power to do it....as you have stated, only you can bring something to a vote.

BTW, as I have shown you with recent help fixing your GT, I am still your 928 Pal... when the state of the 928OC is not part of the topic/subject...and again I blame the extended term of service, not you personally.

Sincerely,

I have discussed that idea with others, and it has merit, but of course now is not the time to bring it to the board.

I am not the only person that can bring an issue to the board for a vote. Any board member can, and in fact any member could solicit a board member to do so.

I appreciate your friendship, and of course, as you know, am extremely appreciative of your assistance with my 928 problems over the years.