The AO Platform, My Analysis

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: Sounds like you intend to put to shame the membership increase of 40% in the last 2 years. What is you intent? Are you going to promise members that you will double or triple the size of the 928 OC? Currently there are over 600 members.



So the key difference is you think by posting in Rennlist, rather than where all this information is currently posted, the 928 OC forums, you will reach members better. Don't you think that is upside down? Like speaking at a Chamber of Commerce event to communicate to the Rotarians... Why not just continue to promote this forum where 365 of the members are registered now. You can't possible know how many 928 OC members are registered at Rennlist, as Rennlist isn't tracking it for you. So even if you communicate there you will have no idea if the members are hearing you. Not to mention if Internet Brands changes its policies about Rennlist, the 928 OC members could be required to pay to see your communications. That means the cost of 928 OC membership jumps by quite a bit, so the value you provide will need to go up.

Just to clarify for the members, will the 928 OC forums be abandoned? Rennlist does not have a 928 Technical Library, a 928 Roadside Assistance Forum or a Members Profile forum. Will you abandon them all? While it is quite late in the game to be laying out your intentions now. I have asked before, and I *am* a member, but you have not answered...

Seems like your vision is that the 928 OC to be a subset of Rennlist. Do you even know how many 928 OC members do not like the atmosphere at Rennlist? The belittling of new posters, the inside jokes, not to mention the 928 OC haters that show disdain for the 928 OC even though they haven't visited the site for many years.

We do know you talk about all the programs the 928 OC should provide, that are already in place, so clearly you are at least out of touch with a club you claim to be ready to lead.

Here is a simple question for you. How much of the accumulated members money will be spent on a national event that 90+% of them will never attend?

Andrew, there are some very valid questions here that I hope to see your response on.

Andrew, FRIENDS for SURE! Our friendship was never in question in all of this, and I feel sure that is true with just about all of the other interested members.

VERY Sincerely, Jerry Feather

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: So the key difference is you think by posting in Rennlist, rather than where all this information is currently posted, the 928 OC forums, you will reach members better. Don't you think that is upside down? Like speaking at a Chamber of Commerce event to communicate to the Rotarians... Why not just continue to promote this forum where 365 of the members are registered now.

The Chamber of Commerce and Rotary are two totally separate entities. I find it very sad that you see the OC as being that far and removed from Rennlist / Pelican / Reutterwerks. If Andrew was suggesting we should scour the Corvette and Ferrari forums to aid in club membership, you would have a point.

IMO the various 928 forums and the OC should be working hand and hand. Not a mentality of "us" or "them" as you portray in this post.

You make it sound like all OC business is banned from being talked about or mentioned on Rennlist or other forums.
I don't care about what happened in the past, I hope it's clear that mentality is not the current Rennlist. At least not as long as I have something to say about it.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: You can't possible know how many 928 OC members are registered at Rennlist, as Rennlist isn't tracking it for you. So even if you communicate there you will have no idea if the members are hearing you.

This is true, but it's a numbers game. On any given day a post on Rennlist / Pelican / Reutterweks will be seen by more 928 owners than the OC.

IMO this is all a moot point since I don't see anywhere that Andrew stated he would skip posting or updating the OC forum.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: Not to mention if Internet Brands changes its policies about Rennlist, the 928 OC members could be required to pay to see your communications. That means the cost of 928 OC membership jumps by quite a bit, so the value you provide will need to go up.

If the 928 forum on Rennlist goes to "pay only" I'll be the first to walk away.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: Rennlist does not have a 928 Technical Library

It doesn't?

forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-134/

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: a 928 Roadside Assistance Forum

No, but starting a "I need help" thread works for most:
forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum...ed-road-america.html

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net;10664 wrote: Members Profile forum

Each Rennlist member can create their own profile, no it's not all lumped together in a forum, that would be rather cumbersome to navigate given the number of members.

I'm a member of this club, and also a paid subscriber of Rennlist too.
I joined the owner's club to attend and support the club and it's events.

I'm a paid subscriber to RL, cause that's where all the technical information is, and when you have a problem, answers come back quick.

I think my money is well spent on both. And both are a damn good value!


When will we know who won the election? The sooner this is over and the bickering stops the better.

Hacker-Pschorr;10672 wrote: The Chamber of Commerce and Rotary are two totally separate entities. I find it very sad that you see the OC as being that far and removed from Rennlist / Pelican / Reutterwerks. If Andrew was suggesting we should scour the Corvette and Ferrari forums to aid in club membership, you would have a point.

IMO the various 928 forums and the OC should be working hand and hand. Not a mentality of "us" or "them" as you portray in this post.

You make it sound like all OC business is banned from being talked about or mentioned on Rennlist or other forums.
I don't care about what happened in the past, I hope it's clear that mentality is not the current Rennlist. At least not as long as I have something to say about it.

Eric,

You miss the key point, Andrew was talking about how he would communicate to members, not how he would be seeking new members.

Communicating to Rennlist about 928 OC business, rather than in the 928 OC community is *exactly* what Randy advised was not acceptable. I started the 928 OC forum for that very reason, because the 928 OC business was forbidden by the moderator of Rennlist. I am sorry that you have forgotten or overlooked that, but you are welcome to scour the Rennlist archives, and you will find it.

Ironic that 928 OC business was effectively banned from Rennlist by the primary moderator for many many years, and you imply I am being divisive. I think what is clear is the Rennlist 928 community is concerned about what is happening in the 928 OC forums and wants to stop it. Really quite sad.

All you need to do is look at Randy's posts in Andrew's announcement on Rennlist and the evidence of his issues are clear.

Just as I had to raise the 928 OC out of the ashes of a bad reputation, you are left with the issues Randy raised. To clarify once again, he made it very clear that 928 OC business discussion was *not* welcome there, in contradiction to the new policy you are now stating.

The 928 OC members now have a forum and it is quite sufficient for their needs, if Andrew wins and shuts it down, it will be a lost to the community. After all some competition is healthy. We have always been quite welcoming of the Rennlist members, we just require a more adult attitude than is too often seen at Rennlist. The members there are welcome to that approach, it is their choice, and I am not saying it is wrong for them.

Hacker-Pschorr;10672 wrote: This is true, but it's a numbers game. On any given day a post on Rennlist / Pelican / Reutterweks will be seen by more 928 owners than the OC.

IMO this is all a moot point since I don't see anywhere that Andrew stated he would skip posting or updating the OC forum.

Nor has Andrew responded to my multiple requests that he explain which programs he will, or will not retain. Nor has he explained who will administrate them. Recently Roger of 928SRUS advised that his staff can provide needed support. Hopefully Andrew recognizes what a huge conflict this would be. The club has always operated completely on a volunteer basis, since I have been president, to ensure there is no bias. Hopefully Andrew recognizes that if 928SRUS is doing the administrative work, there won't be any competing vendors that are likely to want anything to do with the club, due to a perceived bias.

Hacker-Pschorr;10672 wrote: If the 928 forum on Rennlist goes to "pay only" I'll be the first to walk away.

After the steadily developing 928 OC forum has been left behind, where are you walking to, to start all over? That has happened before. That is a *key* purposes to the 928 OC, that the content is owned by the members, so it can not be taken away.

I have yet to hear from anyone that supports Andrew, or Andrew himself, that provides any indication there was *any* thought about this. It sounds like a discussion at OCIC that including drinking could result in such rash behavior. As I have said many times, it is up to the members. My key point is to make the away of the facts, and Andrew/team have provided nothing to indicate my deductions are incorrect.

Hacker-Pschorr;10672 wrote: It doesn't?

forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-134/

Sorry, there is no organization to this. It is not a technical library, it is a gathering of posts of perceived value. If you look at the 928 OC Technical Library you will find a logical order, so that someone seeking help can find it quickly. Using search would be a secondary option.

Of course it is also *owned* by Internet Brands. If they take it offline for any reason, you have nothing.

Hacker-Pschorr;10672 wrote: No, but starting a "I need help" thread works for most:
forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum...ed-road-america.html

Each Rennlist member can create their own profile, no it's not all lumped together in a forum, that would be rather cumbersome to navigate given the number of members.

Sorry, neither of this compare to the organization of what the 928 OC has. They are great attempts by the Rennlist members to work in an environment that they have limited control of.

In short, the Rennlist examples show the value of the 928 OC forum, as the 928 OC members can organize and improve in any fashion they choose, as they *own* the data.

polecat702;10675 wrote: When will we know who won the election? The sooner this is over and the bickering stops the better.

I don't see how my stating facts is bickering. So long as there are those who make false statements I will contest them. I haven't read a post contrary to mine from anyone that has been involved of the administration of the club in the last 9 years. Many, if not all, are from people who aren't even familiar with the 928 OC forums, and they acknowledge it.....

That information is stated on the ballot: 928oc.org/Board_Nomination_Election_Process_and_Schedule.htm

9/16/12